Progressive Ears is pleased to bring you an exclusive interview that just may shed some new light on the development of one of America's premiere prog/rock bands....
The band in question is Kansas. Many progressive rock fans may not be aware of this but the Kansas that rose to fame in the 70's (and still rocks to this day) was actually the band's THIRD incarnation.
Recently, thanks to the good folks at Cuneiform records and founding member Kerry Livgren, recordings from the band's second incarnation have surfaced and are getting a rousing round of approval from the public. The band is being called Proto-Kaw and the CD is Early Recordings From Kansas 1971-1973.
We were lucky enough to interview not only Kerry Livgren (guitar), but also Proto-Kaw members John Bolton (sax) and Dan Wright (keys). This interview discusses a lot about the past and even holds some hints of promise about the future....
Progressive Ears: When did you begin to compose the material on the Proto-Kaw CD? What were these pieces composed on?
Kerry Livgren: This music was written at various times from 1971-1973. Though I only played guitar in the band, most of my composing was done on a old upright piano I had in the living room of our "band house." I was very prolific at that time.
PE: What sort of goal did you have in mind? It seems you had a pretty clear vision of what you wanted from a very early age. How early?
Kerry: I think our common goal was pretty simple - we just wanted to be able to make a living by recording and playing our music. My goal as a musician and composer was to try to formulate a band that sounded like no one else. I think we came pretty close to that. Our goal of getting a recording deal kept "falling through the cracks", but now 30 years later we have one.
PE: What was it like being a musician in the Topeka area in the late 60s, early 70s? Was there any sort of scene for musicians then?
John Bolton: What was always amazing to me was the musical talent out of Eastern Kansas; Topeka, Manhattan, Lawrence, as well as Wichita. In the 60s and 70s this area of the world was full of talent. Many musicians like singer/keyboarder Mike Finnigan and a guitarist named Bill Hollingsworth went to the coast and made it. Also in that group was Dawayne Bailey, formerly guitar with Bob Seger and Chicago. Many are still studio musicians in L.A. In terms of making it from here, it was almost impossible. My hat is off to Kerry and the Kansas guys for going that. There are great and loyal fans here, but the population base is small. The world just does not travel from here to the population areas. It seems that the large record labels are on the coast as well, so it was hard to get discovered. Possibly the assumption that if you're from the Midwest, you don't have chops. There was, and probably still is, as much talent here as anywhere.
Dan Wright: It seemed to me like everyone in high school was in a band. There were a lot of people playing. Not too many were unique. Kerry had a band called "The Gimlets" in high school. One day he came up to me and said "We need an organ player...you're it!" That was my start in music.
There was a nice R&B scene in Topeka at a club called "The Scene." It also seemed to me like live music was MUCH more prevalent in the 60s/70s than now.
PE: Were any of the pieces on the Proto-Kaw CD played by Kansas #1?
Kerry: No, when we started the second band we started with all fresh material. I don't recall why that was now, perhaps we just wanted a fresh start. Unfortunately there are no good recordings of K1 material.
PE: Can you give a short timeline of Kansas #1 and how it led to Kansas #2? What were the differences?
Dan: A Topeka band called White Clover and a Topeka/Manhattan band called Saratoga got together with a guy whose Dad owned a music store to form the first Kansas. We had NINE pieces! This was back when a "big" rock band was 4 or 5 pieces. You should have heard us do "Down by the River"....pretty awesome....
Differences over musical direction and personalities (imagine that!) led to a split between the White Clover and Saratoga guys. The Saratoga guys kept the name "Kansas" and the White Clover guys went back to using the name "White Clover".
The main differences between K1 and K2 were that K1 was more "rock" and K2 was more "jazz" intertwined with all the other "juicy weirdness"....
PE: How did you find the players that made up Kansas #2?
Kerry: Myself, Lynn Meredith (vocals), Dan Wright, and Don Montre were already together from the first Kansas band. Zeke Low had played with us in an earlier group (Saratoga). I believe Lynn was acquainted with John Bolton from an earlier (Manhattan, Kansas) band also. We found Rod Mikinski (bass) in Lawrence, Kansas. He was playing in a band called Together.
PE: Is it true that every tune that you wrote that appears on the debut Kansas album, were also played by Kansas #2?
Kerry: Not all of them, but Belexes, Apercu, and Death of Mother Nature were all Proto-Kaw Songs. Apercu was titled "Parsichine" when we did it. Incomudro was played by Proto-Kaw also but was not recorded by Kansas 'til the Song for America album. There are bits and pieces of Proto-Kaw material all over later Kansas albums. I would often reach back and draw from some of those earlier pieces.
PE: Where did this lineup play? What were the typical types of gigs you played with Kansas #2?
Dan: Anywhere we could... We played a lot of clubs and heard the words "play something we can dance to" ad nauseum. When we threw our own concerts we were in heaven, but none of us was much good at "business" and eventually it became harder and harder to get gigs that paid anything.
John: Wherever they would have us - proms, frat houses, clubs. We put our own concerts on, which was always fun. Always playing original music, you can imagine some of the responses we got. Well, maybe you can't imagine. It was rough at times. We didn't play dance music. Kerry didn't write a lot in 4/4 either.
PE: Where did these particular recordings come from? Where were they recorded?
Dan: The studio stuff was recorded in a studio in Kansas City called "The Caverns" and a studio in Liberal, Kansas, the name of which escapes me now. The two live recordings could have possibly been recorded at the Ellinwood Opera House in the tiny village of Ellinwood, Kansas.
Kerry: Dan is right on the studio recordings but I think the live tracks were at the "Red Dog Inn" in Lawrence.
PE: What prompted you to release them now? How long had you wanted to?
Kerry: I had the idea in mind for quite a few years, but Cuneiform Records prompted me to finally act on it.
PE: What did you do to prepare them for the CD? They sound very good, quality wise, considering their age!
Kerry: That was one reason why I had never released them earlier - sound quality. The technology now for "resurrecting" old audio is amazing. I had to transfer all the analog tapes, some of which were pretty far gone, into my Digital Performer workstation. I used various plug-in programs to enhance the quality. I also did a bit of editing.
PE: Are there any other cuts that didn't make the CD?
Dan: Yeah... but the quality of the recordings are not very good.
Kerry: Yes, lots of them, but many of the recordings are just not adequate.
PE: Any chance of a Proto-Kaw number two in the future?
Dan: Anything is possible. We all still play somewhat in some form or another. I was just really pleased at the reunion party to hear the guys sing/play once more. I personally think we still have "something", but I'm not sure what
PE: Which cuts do you favor the most?
Kerry: I don't suppose I have a favorite. They all represent an era of our lives and they create a mood that is unique for me. They all leave me swimming in memories. When I hear some of this stuff I marvel that we could have been doing it in that place and time.
Dan: Geez...I like them all a lot, but have a special affinity for the ones that I have organ solos on <'nother grin> and there is just something about "Greek Structure Sunbeam" that gives me chills. Could be I remember finally getting the thing recorded around 4 or 5 in the morning after being in the little studio in Liberal all night.
PE: Do you ever see any of the other members of Kansas #2 any more? What became of them?
John: We had a CD release party and reunion on September 28th in Kansas City. Some of us had not seen each other for 30 years. We caught up with each other and jammed, along with playing the CD for 200 friends. It was wild. Only Kerry is into music full-time. The rest of us have non-musical careers. I am a V.P. of sales, Lynn Meredith has the same title in a different field. Seems like we are all successful in our personal lives and careers. This project has certainly helped fill a void in our lives that walking away from music creates. With the exception of Kerry, for quite a few years we all played in cover bands, which helped us financially. Speaking for Lynn Meredith and me, we had a band that helped put us through college. Kerry is the only one who always played original music. It has not been in the cards for the rest of us . But... never say never.
Dan: I was one who had not seen most of the guys for almost 30 years! One of the things I wish most is that we could have stayed a little closer and perhaps jammed and played together from time to time. I did play in a cover-band with Zeke and Don after K2 broke up. That lasted about a year I think. We were pretty darned good but musical differences and personalities (where have I heard that before??) broke that band up too.
Everyone except Kerry and Zeke have "real jobs" and I think we all envy them for that. We have a couple of V.P.'s, a photographer, I am a television engineer, and my dearest friend and companion for all those years, Don, passed away in the early eighties.
Kerry: Hey, guys, come work on the farm for a day and tell me I don't have a "real" job!
PE: What do you hope listeners will gain from the Proto-Kaw CD?
Dan: I hope they gain a perspective of just how far ahead of its time this music was. Kerry was (is) an incredible compositional talent. The stuff just pours out of his head!
Kerry: I just thought this music was historically interesting, and that these musicians should be a part of that recorded history.
PE: Anything else you would care to add?
Dan: I just want to say thanks to Kerry for all his work, effort, and love in putting this CD together. I also want the rest of the guys to know what an incredible gas it has been (and MAY still be) to be fortunate enough to know them musically AND as human beings.
Kerry: I got to play in all three versions of Kansas. What a great experience it has been. I'd like to thank all the musicians who put up with me and with some of the stuff I made them play!
© 2002 Progressive Ears/Sean Tonar